Just recently, a study was conducted by the University of Connecticut which showed more then a third of high school students say the 1st Amendment goes too far. Almost half of the students surveyed said papers should not be able to print stories without government approval.

I think that is more a condemnation of the education system, than any indication of a drift towards an ETD. Altho, I will concede that we have sacraficed liberty for security, and it started with FDR. And neither Republican or Democrat has halted the slide.

Just recently, a study was conducted by the University of Connecticut which showed more then a third of high school students say the 1st Amendment goes too far...This is a good example of how different attitudes are today as compared to just years ago when someone proposing such a thing might well have been beaten in to submission. - Citizen Deference

I think that is more a condemnation of the education system... - Citizen Dr. Guy

I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive but, rather, that the latter helps feed the former. You're correct, we spend so little time studying actual history, civics, and government in public schools that students don't appreciate or understand the important pillars supporting this great nation. To give you an idea of how bad it was when I was a student in public schools (and I'm 25 now); we began studying government in 4th grade speaking about separation of powers and different branches of government as well as glossing over some basics of the Missouri constitution. In 8th grade we spent a little more time on the same material. To graduate from High School (and to graduate from college) we had to take the Missouri Constitution test which consisted of about 15 multiple choice questions that teachers taught to, i.e., we barely read the actual constitution, we simply focused on what the answers to the test questions would be. In between 4th and 12th grade, excepting what I've mentioned, we watched movies such as Gettysburg after spending little time discussing the actual event. Anything I know of the government and the way it works comes from outside study. I attended a school district that had been given the "Blue Ribbon" for excellence and was also an A+ program school. Ridiculous.

A populace is much more malleable when it doesn't know about the history or inner workings of it's own government. How likely were my fellow graduates to make an informed vote or vote at all, when they haven't the slightest idea of the governmental environment their prospective candidate is swimming in?

To graduate from High School (and to graduate from college) we had to take the Missouri Constitution test

IN California, in order to pass the 8th grade, you had to take a test on the US Constitution. So 3 weeks before the test, all other learning cased and we crammed (in the history class) for the test. By the end of that period, I had the damn thing memorized!
But the stuff I learned about history in school was the dates and places (I am 48 so I had less history to learn than you did). There really was no push to tell us the why behind a thing, just the where and when.

I am 48 so I had less history to learn than you did

Points for making me smile.

So 3 weeks before the test, all other learning cased and we crammed (in the history class) for the test.

It would have been nice had we done even that, it's ludicrous to cherry pick answers and "teach for the test" and leave all actual learning behind. It may sound much more convenient, but in the end, teachers (or NEA) are only cheating students.

It may sound much more convenient, but in the end, teachers (or NEA) are only cheating students.

Here in Va, they have what they call SOL - Standards of Learning. It is for 4th, 8th and 11th graders. And yep, the teachers teach to the test! All class work ceases except teaching to pass those test for the 6 weeks befoer the test.

SOS - DD

Manipulation of Mass Media by government Executive Branch and DARPA Office of Strategic Information


---That isn't the only manipulation of media, hence the liberal bias.....think about it...

---Here in oregon we have the CIM[Certificate of Initial Mastery], where you are tested over several different areas[4th,8th, and 12th grade] and you have to pass the standardized tests in 12th grade, or you don't graduate, this has forced the highschool teachers to teach to test, not to teach to learn, which has started a movement called the chalkboard project...[ http://chalkboardproject.org/ ]

Thanks for the Chalkboard link! I'll be checking that out!

I'm not quite sure what you meant by:

---That isn't the only manipulation of media, hence the liberal bias.....think about it...

...but what I was referring to was the rash of reporters and columnists the White House had paid to promote administrative policies and the few documented times Defense spokesman provided disinformation through the American media by providing doctored video tapes and incorrect / misleading reports regarding military action - the most recent of which occured when announcing the start of the invasion of Fallujah.

For me, the government manipulating the media is much worse then individual or private enterprise meddling because it creates an atmosphere where the American people are seen as open to subjugation by the very government they are supposed to be in control of.

For me, the government manipulating the media is much worse then individual or private enterprise meddling because it creates an atmosphere where the American people are seen as open to subjugation by the very government they are supposed to be in control of.

If the media was more responsible in its reporting, the dis-information would not be necessary. However, since 'THE STORY' is all that matters to them, then the Defense department, in order to save GI lives, which is their first priority, must use any means available.

If the media was more responsible in its reporting, the dis-information would not be necessary. However, since 'THE STORY' is all that matters to them, then the Defense department, in order to save GI lives, which is their first priority, must use any means available.

I disagree, the dangerous precedent of allowing the government to control the media in any manner is an element of a fascist / totalitarian society. It is most important to keep the original tapestry of our government intact then suffer the loss of any one life.

I disagree, the dangerous precedent of allowing the government to control the media in any manner is an element of a fascist / totalitarian society. It is most important to keep the original tapestry of our government intact then suffer the loss of any one life.

Then we will disagree. In times of war, it makes no sense to have your enemy learn of your batlle plans on CNN. We may have the best equipped army in the world, but bullets still kill.

In times of Peace, I would agree, but not when lives are at stake.

Deference, I don't deny that all these things you list are happening. I just deny that they add up to an Evil Totalitarian Dictatorship.

This, I think, is the heart of our disagreement:

All in the name of "security"? No thanks, I'll go back to my "old" pre-911 days if I've got to put up with that.

You would rather "put up with" the occasional hijacking, building-destruction, and 3,000 citizens dead. Making some effort to sift the evildoers from the law-abiding citizens would be too much tyranny for you, I guess.

I'm curious: what do you think you, personally, would have to do, to make the Secret Police come after you?

Post anti-government sentiments on the Internet? Picketing the White House with a big sign saying Bush is the Antichrist? Start attending regular services at a mosque? Meeting regularly with suspected terrorists? Conspiring to commit terrorist acts?

How afraid are you, really, of the current administration? Do you stay up at night worrying that you've done something to offend them, and they're going to come for you in your sleep?

It is a citizens duty to say what they think about the GOP , good or bad.

It lets them know who really runs the show.

My point was that the original poster , pretty openly boxed in an arguement , and made logical omissions then tried to project a distorted world view out of it.

The US empire does tend to be one in denial , this is good and bad as it shows that she still believes in her self and is indeed different to other similar empires.

The US empire does tend to be one in denial , this is good and bad as it shows that she still believes in her self and is indeed different to other similar empires.

The US is not nor ever has been an empire.  We broke away from one 230 years ago and have never tread that path.  Revisionist would have everyone believe that the US is an evil Imperialistic Empire, but the facts prove otherwise.

---Denial, There seems to be a lot of that going around.

The US is not nor ever has been an empire. We broke away from one 230 years ago and have never tread that path. Revisionist would have everyone believe that the US is an evil Imperialistic Empire, but the facts prove otherwise.

--I agree it hasn't been an empire like great britain was, and i doubt it will ever, but it has, in my opinion, been an "empire", in other means....

--I agree it hasn't been an empire like great britain was, and i doubt it will ever, but it has, in my opinion, been an "empire", in other means....

That is double talk. It either is or is not.