No, not the movie
Published on March 9, 2005 By stutefish In US Domestic
What's wrong with the Ten Commandments, anyway? Name one Commandment that doesn't have a universal application. Name one Commandment--just one!--that doesn't communicate a valuabe principle that every healthy community should firmly believe in.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"? How about this: Know what you believe, and be true to it. Christians, study your scriptures, practice what you preach, avoid hypocrisy. Likewise all you other people with core principles to believe in. Hindu? Be true to your Hindu gods. Buddhist? Don't water down your belief in the evils of Desire, but devote yourself sincerely to desiring nothing. Or don't. I'm not really clear on how Buddhism works. But you Buddhists know. Or should, anyway, if you were serious about your beliefs.

Sure, the Judeo-Christian Ten Commandments put this injunction in Judeo-Christian terms, but that's because it's their version. Are you telling me that other belief systems don't have similar injunctions? Are you telling me that belief systems shouldn't have such injunctions?

And this applies to non-religious value systems, too. The Greens know this commandment. They obey it every day, when they steadfastly refuse any compromise or dilution of their highest principles.

Know what you believe, and be true to it. This is advice we could all benefit from hearing more often. And the halls of Justice aren't a bad place to hear it.

"Thou shalt not murder"? Please. Are there any beliefsystems that value wrongful killing? Okay, bad question. Are there any belief systems out there that value wrongful killing, that we actually want to be part of our community's overall system of values? Any healthy communities out there that promote murder as a core principle? Any reason at all why "don't fucking kill people" is a bad thing to have carved in stone in of our Courts of Law?

"Honor thy father and thy mother"? Riiight. Because children who are encouraged not to respect their elders generally contribute valuable things to a healthy community. Only... not so much. Again, how many religions are making valuable contributions to our community life by advocating a rejection of parents by their children?

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife"? Give me a break. Envy, covetousness, greed... these attitudes are sickening to the individual and to the community.. Don't get hung up on what you don't have. Don't resent your neighbors for their good fortune, or the fruits of their hard labor. Insanity aside, almost all crime arises from this unhealthy obsession with what we don't have, compared to those around us.

Know what your highest values are. Be true to those values. Don't kill people. Respect your elders. Don't base your happiness on things you don't have.

These are all good, healthy values for a community to develop and promote. They may not all be laws, but they all inform our laws, and make a good foundation for responsible and fulfilling interactions with our fellow humans. Far from banning them from the public places, we should be celebrating them in all their forms. Rather than tearing down the Judeo-Christian version, we should be enshrining the Hindu version, and the Confucian version, and Islamic version, right there alongside, in every courthouse in America.

If you're offended by the Ten Commandments, then I have to ask: what kind of monster are you?

Comments (Page 3)
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on Mar 11, 2005
Please, try reading the bible, it's one of the stupidest and most evil books ever written,


I do not make fun of you beliefs, and BY GOD I will not tolerate you making a mockery of mine!
on Mar 11, 2005
Intellectual laziness?


aaaaaaaaahahahaha youre the one too lazy to go back and find the original thread in which i explained why your favorite phrase can easily be understood to mean the equivalent of 'fortune smiles on us' and suggested you check one of the many online latin resources for confirmation. there's no direct implication or involvement of the divine (unless you happen to worship the good of good luck as well as the other you advocate.)

it's an overly vague phrase, not the national motto or even close and provides no clarification nor proof of anything.
on Mar 11, 2005
I never did say "My encyclopedia is more valid than yours"


yeah you're right. it wasnt an encyclopedia (despite your earlier allusion to one of them). you based your argument on the august wisdom to be found at dictionary.com
on Mar 11, 2005
aaaaaaaaahahahaha youre the one too lazy to go back and find the original thread in which i explained why your favorite phrase can easily be understood to mean the equivalent of 'fortune smiles on us' and suggested you check one of the many online latin resources for confirmation. there's no direct implication or involvement of the divine (unless you happen to worship the good of good luck as well as the other you advocate.)


If you find a Latin source that suggests that it means "Fortune smiles on us" rather than "Providence/God/He/etc..." then feel free to provide it. Why are you so resistant to provide just one thing that backs up anything you say?
It's funny. You keep making the claim, but don't care to provide anything to support it, but expect me to support it based on your word alone (and I've checked but I haven't found a source that suggests annuit coeptis means "Fortune smiles on us.). Sounds like intellectual laziness to me. Or trolling.

yeah you're right. it wasnt an encyclopedia (despite your earlier allusion to one of them). you based your argument on the august wisdom to be found at dictionary.com


And, yet your sources (yourself), are somehow more valid?
on Mar 11, 2005
How would a copy of the commandments be considered a graven "image" of any one person or god?


a huge stone carved to represent anything--especially anything that can only be imagined but is also considered sacred--is a graven image by definition.
on Mar 11, 2005
Why are you so resistant to provide just one thing that backs up anything you say?


go here: Link

the head words you'll need are coepto and annuo (although as you'll see the preferred form is adnuo). since you've taken french, you're familiar with similar grammatical conventions (case, tense, person, number, etc.) and constructs as well as their importance in both connotive and denotive translation.

knock yourself out
on Mar 12, 2005
Thanks! I checked that site, I'm guessing it could mean something along the lines of "It (fortune) smiles on our undertakings." However, that third person could be anything from fortune, to Britain, to France, to Christianity, to God, etc. Clearly it has to refer to something though, and I guess that's where context comes into play. Looking right below the motto on the dollar bill...
on Mar 12, 2005
How would a copy of the commandments be considered a graven "image" of any one person or god?


a huge stone carved to represent anything--especially anything that can only be imagined but is also considered sacred--is a graven image by definition.


I think your full of it:


"Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: / Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, / The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, / The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: / And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven."
on Mar 12, 2005
I think your full of it:


i might agree with you if i didnt have a clue as to what constitutes a graven (shaped,carved,sculpted,etc.) image (likeness, representation).

but i do...and therefore i dont.
on Mar 13, 2005
I think your full of it:


i might agree with you if i didnt have a clue as to what constitutes a graven (shaped,carved,sculpted,etc.) image (likeness, representation).

but i do...and therefore i dont.


Just an FYI the quote came directly out of the bible. Notice no where in there does it say ANYTHING that even comes close to a copy of the 10 commandments. Also in theological circles generaly conforms to what is quoted. So I and others still think your full of it
on Mar 13, 2005
Notice no where in there does it say ANYTHING that even comes close to a copy of the 10 commandments. Also in theological circles generaly conforms to what is quoted


also doesnt say anything about logos, letters, circles (theological or otherwise) or pentagons much less modern media.

so in other words, one can fabricate a lucite pentagon inside which there are letters spelling out: 'i am the real god' as well as the olympics logo...and worship it to see whether it answers prayers quicker than the competition?

which drive-thru divinity college ordained you again?

So I and others still think your full of it


sticks n stones doc
on Mar 13, 2005
I don't think any of us should debate what "graven images" means, since it could be a mistranslation. Unless any of us can fluently speak the original language in which the passages in question were written, and unless we have the original documents, all we have is what other people have said it meant. For all we know, it could be "sacrilegious images."
on Mar 13, 2005
I don't think any of us should debate what "graven images" means,


if there was a question as to whether there's a proscription against graven images you'd have a point. nobody is debating that (or the translation of the other commandments) tho. nor is there really any question as to the nature of a graven image. the issue of whether it's hypocritical to make a graven image of the tablets may not be quite as cut-n-dry but im not gonna advocate doin it for fear of someone goin to hell cuz of my stupidity.
on Mar 13, 2005
so in other words, one can fabricate a lucite pentagon inside which there are letters spelling out: 'i am the real god' as well as the olympics logo...and worship it to see whether it answers prayers quicker than the competition?

which drive-thru divinity college ordained you again?


No you can't because then you would have an "image" of a false god.
on Mar 13, 2005
if there was a question as to whether there's a proscription against graven images you'd have a point. nobody is debating that (or the translation of the other commandments) tho. nor is there really any question as to the nature of a graven image. the issue of whether it's hypocritical to make a graven image of the tablets may not be quite as cut-n-dry but im not gonna advocate doin it for fear of someone goin to hell cuz of my stupidity.


Well, I am debating the correct translation of that passage. Sure, everybody else might accept it to be "graven images," but does everybody else actually know the true translation, or do they only think they know it from what others have said? If the latter, then one can hardly accept it as the valid translation.

Also, people won't go to hell for a "graven image" if they accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Hell, I could probably commit suicide and still go to Heaven if I do that!
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