You just KISS ed it!

But the problem is that the DU are below stupid!

So many lefties have this belief that increased suffering brings increased value and prestige. It even extends to the national and international level. Who's genocide was worst - the Armenians? The Jews? The Russians? The Indians? The Chinese? It's a competition - seeking the most pity. Lefties then live vicariously through these oppressed people. Notice the eagerness to label so many things "atrocities." It's not a coincidence.

Because lefties have this mindset, they are so eager to portray themselves as victims of something, even if it is non-existent or trivial. With knowledge of this, it is easy to see why the comparison of Bush to Hitler is made, or the various comparisons of the USA to Nazi Germany.

I see you guys have forgotten to add the 3rd and most obvious sign of a TD.

And that is killing poeple in other countries.

Since WW2 , just how many millions has it been?

Since WW2 , just how many millions has it been?

Dont know, you tell me how many indigenious New Zealanders have been killed in the name of your prosperity.  A Million?  2? 3?

Shhh, someone is listening at the door.......

Notice the eagerness to label so many things "atrocities." It's not a coincidence.

n. pl. a·troc·i·ties

1.Appalling or atrocious condition, quality, or behavior; monstrousness.
2.An appalling or atrocious act, situation, or object, especially an act of unusual or illegal cruelty inflicted by an armed force on civilians or prisoners.

What’s your definition of an atrocity?

What’s your definition of an atrocity?

Purposeful, intentional, systematic brutality or slaughter of non-combatants, especially when motivated by political, ethnic, racial, or religious reasons.

Jenin was not an atrocity.
Fallujah was not an atrocity.
Iraqi sanctions were not an atrocity.
The Patriot Act is not an atrocity.
Depleted Uranium is not an atrocity
The death of Nathaniel Jones is not an atrocity.
Illegal aliens dying in the desert trying to sneak into American is not an atrocity.

The noose is getting tighter, America is not a Totalitarian Dictatorship yet, but the foundation for one is there. Everywhere one looks, it's obvious the tracks have been laid down, the train just isn't in full view.

Consider this:

*Laws have been passed that allow full domestic surveillance and imprisonment of Americans without any evidence, secret arrests and imprisonment is within the broad powers our lawmakers willingly signed away (Patriotic Act / Intel Reform Act of '04)

*National ID's linked to all personal information (student, medical, financial records) within a federal database will be issued within a year and a half, a governor's summit with the president discussing whether biometrics and gps will be implemented is scheduled to occur by the end of this year or the beginning of next (HR 418 "Real ID ACT" in February '05) and just recently, language expounding upon the Real ID ACT were snuck into the supplemental spending bill YESTERDAY

*Video Cameras designed to monitor public areas are to become a network of eyes watching the public at all times, some today already include facial recognition software such as the new system installed in Los Angelas

http://www.infowars.com/articles/bb/lapd_studies_facial_recog_sw.htm
http://www.infowars.com/print/bb/baltimore.htm
http://www.infowars.com/print/bb/convention_surveillance.htm

*FEMA, Federal Emergency Management Agency, via a sign-off from the President can suspend all constitutional rights and establish martial law with the stroke of a pen. The link below gives a concise description and explains FEMA's creation through executive orders by 4 different Presidents, but feel free to do research on your own.

http://www.netowne.com/conspiracy/konformist/fema.htm

*Recent reports of journalists being paid to promote administration policies are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the government manipulating the media for their own purposes. The OSI or Office of Strategic Information - a pet project of DARPA quietly eased off the DARPA website two years ago under public outcry that the U.S. Gov. would attempt to lie to the public and / or allies to gain a military advantage. That hasn't stopped anybody..

A Spinwatch investigation has revealed that journalists working for the Services Sound and Vision Corporation (SSVC) have been commissioned to provide news reports to the BBC. The BBC has been using these reports as if they were genuine news. In fact, the SSVC is entirely funded by the Ministry of Defence as a propaganda operation, which according to its own website makes a 'considerable contribution' to the 'morale' of the armed forces.

In the US, Washington has been rocked by the scandal of fake journalists. The Bush administration has been paying actors to produce news, paying journalists to write propaganda, and paying Republican party members to pose as journalists.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-01-26-williams-usat_x.htm
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=10
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4757987,00.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2005/170105subvertingthepress.htm
http://www.counterpunch.org/miller03142005.html
http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000778976


*FBI project CARNIVORE is a program designed to filter all transmissions going through U.S. satellites, all electronic communication is monitored and combed through
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/831111.stm
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-252368.html?legacy=cnet

*Today children carry a picture ID at public schools with a barcode on the back which they must have with them at all times, this eases them into adulthood wherein they will carry their National ID card with them at all times where they can be tracked from place to place. Think about it - at school you check out your books and get your lunch with your ID card. In the principals office, particularly if your school is large, instead of a file in a cabinet, the principal slides your card and up pops your file - same as the guidance counselour's or the nurse's office. In the adult world, you may pay with your id card for breakfast at McDonald's, then pick out a book at the local library, then pay for gas before going home. Every place you use it provides a line of dots to be connected by Big Brother


So, for everyone who doesn't believe in the new police state / totalitarian dicatorship, let's just say that it's here, but if you don't believe it, it's only becuase you've not yet felt the effects of it.

*Today children carry a picture ID at public schools with a barcode on the back which they must have with them at all times, this eases them into adulthood wherein they will carry their National ID card with them at all times where they can be tracked from place to place.

One law at a time.  Unfortunate, but very close to being true.

The question is what are you going to do about it?

That's a very good question. The first thing to do is spread awareness to the people that will listen. Once a mass of people are educated about these thing a plan can be formulated and action can be taken upon it. Already, some people are by challenging poor legislature in the courts. Notice you don't hear much about it in the media. In regards to what could possibly be done about the executive orders, not much is known. To quote from the link on FEMA:

A Presidential Executive Order, whether Constitutional or not, becomes law simply by its publication in the Federal Register. Congress is by-passed if they choose not to contest it within 60 days.

All I can think of is an organized mass public outcry and a ridding of any congressman who fails to bring up the issue.

The fact that 4 different President reviewed FEMA and helped expand upon it's already enormous power should be telling you something, when Richard Nixon first started this ball rolling, it's effective intent was already clear - establish the federal government's power to override the constitution, state's rights, and individual rights. The added executive orders only help "put the seal on the mason jar" so to speak.

Regardless of what you choose to believe about FEMA, there are many everyday examples of how our society has slid far away from the democratic principles the forefathers of our nation established. They would be aghast and rightfully would call such executive orders and recent legislation as undemocratic and totalitarian.

Deference,

A free society will always have tension between liberty and security. Any society where citizens are free to debate the proper balance between the two is not an Evil Totalitarian Dictatorship. The fact that you are here, now, telling me about the worrying trend towards less liberty in the name of more security, is your most powerful argument that freedom is still alive and well for us.

But there is nothing morally wrong with compromising between the two. The farmer who forces himself out of bed several hours before sunrise sacrifices liberty to security every day. When two businessmen sign a contract with each other, they are sacrificing liberty for security. When we pay taxes, we buy a bit of security with a bit of liberty.

None of this, and none of the things you've listed, indicate that we live in an Evil Totalitarian Dictatorship. Once again, there are two ways to tell: One, a lot of people sincerely believe we don't live in an Evil Totalitarian Dictatorship. Two, a lot of people are still free to say we do live in an Evil Totalitarian Dictatorship.

I see that you took my suggestion, and argued that we're not an ETD yet, but will be soon (for the reasons you've given).

So how about this: You provide one or two concrete benchmarks. Unmistakable Signs that we really are an ETD, along the lines of the Two Rules. Tell us what the Signs will be, and in what year of the future we can expect to see them. Then, when that year comes and goes, and your Signs fail to materialize, we can all ridicule you in good conscience, justified by your false prophecies, rather than having to put up with your empty and inconclusive propaganda doomsaying.

Or, if you turn out to be right, maybe we can get together somewhere in the Gulag Archipelago, and I'll apologize profusely for not believing you.

But until that day...

Speaking of kiling people in other countries....

Albania went Communist, and then promptly closed its borders and cut off all contact with the outside world for the duration of the Cold War. Even other communist states had difficulty interacting with Albania. Albania did no warmongering at all, in spite of being a textbook ETD

North Korea hasn't invaded any othe rcountries, or killed a lot of non-Koreans outside its borders, since it was first formed, but it's still an ETD in every sense.

In fact, now that I think about it, the killing of its own people is a more sure sign of an ETD than the killing off of foreign enemies outside its borders.

Saddam Hussein gave as good as he got in the Iran-Iraq war, and he certainly made life hell for a lot of Kuwaitis, but what we really dislike about him was his abominable treatement of his own citizens.

Maybe Pol Pot waged war on his neighbors, but he still goes down in history as a monster because of what he did to his fellow Cambodians.

The Roman Republic went to war on a regular basis, and it was governed by an elected representative body. The Romans held free elections (for Roman Citizens--and even foreign slaves could attain that status) on a regular basis.

Soviet warmongering killed a lot of non-soviets, but we hold Stalin in contempt because of the millions of his own citizens he swept away.

Hitler waged terrible war across Europe, but what sickens us all are the things he did to his own people (and later, to the other peoples he conquered and ruled).

No, if I had to add a third rule, it would be Death Camps. If your own countryside is dotted with facilities dedicated not to the incarceration of criminals, nor to the segregation of potential threats (such as POWs), but dedicated instead to the systematic and institutionalized slaughter of "undesireables" in your own citizenry, then yeah, that's an ETD for sure.

This, by the way, is how I know things are going well in Iraq. Many Iraqis sincerely believe things are going well. Many other Iraqis are free to complain that things aren't going well. And there's a distinct lack of death camps in the country.

At worst, Iraq has been invaded by warmongering asshats. Personally, I figure we're about two years into a five-year job, so there's plenty of time left to see how that all sorts out, before condemning the policy or its implementation.

A free society will always have tension between liberty and security.

As you may be well aware of, that balance has shifted radically towards "security" in only a few short years. Legislation and government policies have been implemented that will keep the momentum shifting towards "security" and further away from liberty.

As I've suggested in this post and the other 6 Ways to Tell if You REALLY ARE Living in a Totalitarian Dictatorship, people are being conditioned to accept this new reality.

Just recently, a study was conducted by the University of Connecticut which showed more then a third of high school students say the 1st Amendment goes too far. Almost half of the students surveyed said papers should not be able to print stories without government approval.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6888837/

This is a good example of how different attitudes are today as compared to just years ago when someone proposing such a thing might well have been beaten in to submission. Some do not understand the importance of the original framework of America and how important it was to keep it in tact. Today we have people writing off the 1st Amendment in record numbers and allowing our representatives to run roughshod over important underpinnings that keep us free and the government in check.

a lot of people sincerely believe we don't live in an Evil Totalitarian Dictatorship

As I've mentioned and as you've acknowledged, I didn't say we live in an ETD. I did say that we have suddenly altered our Democratic-Republic to the extent that it now bares, on paper, similarities to a Totalitarian Dictatorship. The only thing holding anyone back from actually being able to say that it is TD is the fact that only in small ways has the federal government actually acted upon it's new and incredibly broad powers.

Despite easy firsthand observance of our new surveilled and right-ridden society, people will not believe ETD exists until they've seen action taken. Then it will be too late. Some people simply want to live without taking part in our democracy and those apathetic sheep will be the ones who will totally ignore the construction of a fascist / TD state because they are too wrapped up in their job, their own lives, or the fact that they can make frozen waffles in their microwave oven while wackin' it to the latest 'net porn. Government? Who cares? It runs without me. Yes. Yes it does. Lately it seems the government has been consolidating quite a bit of power in the name of "security", while the guy making frozen waffles sees no effect from his 4th amendment right being moot today, it doesn't mean he won't someday be adversly affected by the loss.

The fact that you are here, now, telling me about the worrying trend towards less liberty in the name of more security, is your most powerful argument that freedom is still alive and well for us.

I've heard that before, in a cruder sense:

Bwah-hahahahahahahaha!!! If you truly were living in such a dictatorship you would be in prision for running off at the mouth! -drmiler

Uh-huh. Simply becuase YOU see no visible effect from these laws or the effects of developments in society today does not mean that there is not a framework in place that has now opened the door to a police state. Cameras on the streets, National Id cards, and revocation of civil rights do not mean a totalitarian state is in place but their presence is a sign that one is open to be acted upon and with public approval.

"The analogy is this, if you put a frog in a pot of boiling water, it will immediately lash out at you, struggling, writhing, anything to get away from the scalding liquid. If, however, you put a frog in lukewarm water, and gradually turn the heat up, the frog with become lethargic and eventually cook to death by the time the water is boiling."

Hey, guess who the frog is? The point being that Americans would vehemently rise up against a totalitarian state pushed upon them, but if it creeps in incrementally, then little can be done about the situation until too late.

I've tried to provide many examples of how dangerously close we are, as well as totally forgetting about some of the other things now found in our society that mirror that of one we might think of as totalitarian; lack of transparency of the government (now an issue after 9/11 & Ashcroft), prison camps (Gitmo), and the ability to use torture to extract "confessions".

lack of transparency source:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/01/06/ED125108.DTL

torture / Gitmo sources:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/470AB739-F809-41F8-A3E2-3967BA55D985.htm
http://www.indystar.com/articles/1/229557-1701-P.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/470AB739-F809-41F8-A3E2-3967BA55D985.htm
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/290459p-248637c.html

....but like any ostrich you'll tell me you're breathing okay while you choke on the sand your head is buried under. There is much more evidence to support the idea that the government we hail as our own is quite a bit less democratic then what some believe - until those burying their heads clean the sand from their eyes and see the actions that match the words on paper, policies, and legislature.

So how about this: You provide one or two concrete benchmarks. Unmistakable Signs that we really are an ETD, along the lines of the Two Rules. Tell us what the Signs will be, and in what year of the future we can expect to see them. Then, when that year comes and goes, and your Signs fail to materialize, we can all ridicule you in good conscience, justified by your false prophecies, rather than having to put up with your empty and inconclusive propaganda doomsaying

Nice baiting, unfortunately ,Little Ostrich, you now bear the onus of supporting and defending all these practices that I think most Americans might expect to find only in a totalitarian society that are, today, practiced in America:

Manipulation of Mass Media by government Executive Branch and DARPA Office of Strategic Information
Prison Camps
Secret Arrests
Lack of Government transparency
Revocation of basic civil rights
Surveillance of citizens without consent or knowledge
Executive Orders outside of Constitution made for undermining Constitutional Separation of Powers
Legislation consolidating Federal power above State Level

All in the name of "security"? No thanks, I'll go back to my "old" pre-911 days if I've got to put up with that. Snap out of it. I've provided many examples and sources for each, but even that's just the tip of the iceburg.

Mmmm. Ostrich taste good to Deference. Can't see me while head in ground.

The states of Evil Totalitarian Dictatorships has developed into more sophisticated ways, things are not that simple as they were in the good ol days , there are no clear cut borders for the playground and torture chambers , but , nowadays they play it where it matters, The UN, the media outlets should be and are in the US, UK and Europe, the mouthpiece of the Pentagon, Bush et company, informants at campuses you name it.Look at the universities that were once the core for the Vietnam anti war protests, now they are the one feeding the war with their young men.I visited the US for the first time last year and good not believe what I saw in terms of goveronment negelct and social inequalities, just the homless issue prove that the Bush folks are after thier own corporate interests.I realy feel that Americans are decent honest people betrayed by this administration.

The states of Evil Totalitarian Dictatorships have developed into more sophisticated ways, things are not that simple as they were in the good ol days , there are no clear cut borders for the playground and torture chambers , but , nowadays they play it where it matters, The UN, the media outlets should be and are in the US, UK and Europe, the mouthpiece of the Pentagon, Bush et company, informants at campuses you name it.Look at the universities that were once the core for the Vietnam anti war protests, now they are the one feeding the war with their young men.I visited the US for the first time last year and good not believe what I saw in terms of goveronment negelct and social inequalities, just the homless issue prove that the Bush folks are after thier own corporate interests.I realy feel that Americans are decent honest people betrayed by this administration.