If this was a 'civil war' as many make it out to be, we wouldn't be seeing 160 deaths every so often, we'd be seeing thousands a day. This is a nation filled to the brim with military-trained civilians with access to arms. What do they do? Line up to get jobs in the new government. Making the recent attacks out to be "civil war" would be akin to calling Oklahoma City an act of "civil war."

The movers-and-shakers of the so-called "revolution" in Iraq aren't even Iraqi, and last week they stated openly that the Shia in Iraq were their enemies as well. That tells me this has nothing to do with restoring Saddam Hussein, or forging some sort of anti-US Iraq.

This is a hateful, nazi-esque minority trying to impose rule on the majority, which is exactly what we went there to change.

Evil is waiting in line at the grocery store for 45 minutes with a screaming two year old who wants a damn candy bar (they keep right there), only to have the cashier say, "Sorry hon, this is my last customer (meaning the person in front of me). Now why couldn't she tell me that 40 minutes ago? EVIL!!

Yes Tex. You can not give freedon or democracy. No one gave it to us and we can not give it to Iraq. Compounding the problem is the Moslem/Christian conflict. I do not know why Bush went into Iraq but I do not believe it will, in the end, be to our benefit. We have spent the lives and injuries of our youth, spent $300 Billion and made many new enemies that will not forget. How that has made America safer is something I would like someone to explain.

This is what Paul O'neil had to say about the Iraq war and Bush


REUTERS
Bush planned Iraqi invasion pre-Sept. 11 - report


NEW YORK (Reuters) - Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill charges in a new book that President Bush entered office in January 2001 intent on invading Iraq and was in search of a way to go about it.

O'Neill, fired in December 2002 as part of a shake-up of Bush's economic team, has become the first major insider of the Bush administration to launch an attack on the president.

He likened Bush at Cabinet meetings to "a blind man in a room full of deaf people," according to excerpts from a CBS interview to promote a book by former Wall Street Journal reporter Ron Suskind, "The Price of Loyalty."

To go to war, Bush used the argument that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction and had to be stopped in the post-Sept. 11, 2001, world. The weapons have never been found.

"From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go," O'Neill said in the "60 Minutes" interview scheduled to air Sunday. "For me, the notion of pre-emption, that the U.S. has the unilateral right to do whatever we decide to do, is a really huge leap."

CBS released excerpts from the interview Friday and Saturday.

The former treasury secretary and other White House insiders gave Suskind documents that in the first three months of 2001 revealed the Bush administration was examining military options for removing Saddam Hussein, CBS said.

"There are memos," Suskind told CBS. "One of them marked 'secret' says 'Plan for Post-Saddam Iraq."'

Another Pentagon document entitled "Foreign suitors for Iraqi Oil Field Contracts" talks about contractors from 40 countries and which ones have interest in Iraq, Suskind said.



BENT ON WAR

O'Neill was also quoted in the book as saying the president was determined to find a reason to go to war and he was surprised nobody on the National Security Council questioned why Iraq should be invaded.

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it," said O'Neill. "The president saying 'Go find me a way to do this."'

White House spokesman Scott McClellan rejected O'Neill's remarks.

"We appreciate his service. While we're not in the business of doing book reviews, it appears that the world according to Mr. O'Neill is more about trying to justify his own opinions than looking at the reality of the results we are achieving on behalf of the American people," he said Saturday.

O'Neill also said the president did not ask him a single question during their first one-on-one meeting, which lasted an hour. The president's lack of engagement left his advisers with "little more than hunches about what the president might think," O'Neil told "60 Minutes."

Suskind's book, whose full title is "The Price of Loyalty: George W. Bush, the White House, and the Education of Paul O'Neill", uses interviews with O'Neill, dozens of White House insiders and 19,000 documents provided by O'Neill.

O'Neill, who was fired due to disagreements over tax cuts, spent a difficult two years in Washington, joining the Bush administration with a background as a no-nonsense corporate executive.

Copyright 2004, Reuters News Service

I don't think freedom is a gift that can be given, which is part of the reason why I find this war suspect. The Iraqi people have to demand what they want. If they want freedom, then it is up to them to fight for it. We can help, sure. We can be their allies. But we can't give them freedom.

I'm sure the French troops and the Minority of Colonists who were for independence from Enland would tend to disagree.

Iraqis didn't even have the means to prevent their Olympic Soccer players from being killed or tortured, freedom under scum like Hussein is no more a choice for them as walking through South Central LA at midnight and surviving would be to you and me.

The fact is, freedom for Iraqis wasn't our main purpose for going back to Iraq (it was mentioned from the beginning, but not with much emphasis), but what a great follow on mission, wouldn't you say?

COLONGangrene!

Yes Tex. You can not give freedon or democracy. No one gave it to us and we can not give it to Iraq.

Wrong you anti freedom pinworm slime! WRONG as usual! The freedom that you take for granted was handed to your over pampered, spoiled rotten, butt on a silver platter! Don't you dare sit there and pompously excrete that filth that no one gave us our freedom. You and your whole existence are a slap in the face to every man and women who died for the freedom you refuse to respect... The budding freedom you now resent for others.

The least of the people in Iraqi and Afghanistan who faced death just to vote have more appreciation for the freedom that they don't really even comprehend than you have in your whole elitist pissant existence!!!!


Now float away into the sewer of your life you maggot laden mouse turd!

ParaTed2K

You are a piss poor excuse for an American. I served my country and my community. You have no idea what I have done.You support a policy that kills Americans with no real benefit and that is sad. No other country came and gave us freedon. No other country fought our battlers to preserve that freedon. In all the wars we fought to preserve our way of life, it was the US not anyone else that sent their youth to give us ANYTHING. You are an ass and a disgrace to this great nation!

Gene, for your service to country and community, I am grateful. For your parading it around as a catch-all excuse for some of the most incredible tomfoolery... not so much.

I tried to access his DOD records. None exist for a Col Gene. Or even a Lt. Col, major or captain. There was a 1st Louie that got a dishonorable for going AWOL.

Guess we know now.

Well My DD 214 says otherwise and I receive a retirement check each month. Another BS JoeUser in post # 24. Below is my biorgaphy which appears in my book. You can also find my biography in Who"s Who in the World 1989/1990





About the Author

Gene P. Abel is a person that is not satisfied with the status quo and has always been in the forefront of change. He was born in Allentown, Pennsylvania in 1941. Mr. Abel is from a German and Scottish heritage and was educated in the public school system. He earned a B.S. from Penn State in finance/economics and an MBA from Lehigh University. He was a distinguished military graduate and received a regular army commission as a second lieutenant in the field artillery branch of the Army in 1963. Abel served as a nuclear weapons officer in Germany and a member of the nuclear release authority that begins with the President and ended with Lt Abel. Upon the completion of his tour in Germany, he spent two years as a finance officer at Ft Lewis, Washington. After four years of active duty he accepted a reserve commission as a Captain in the Army Reserve and left active duty in 1968.

He remained in the Army Reserve until 1993 and retired at the rank of Colonel. He is a graduate of the Army War College and was awarded numerous medals including a Meritorious Service Medal on two occasions. He was promoted to Colonel after only 19 years of service and was nominated for promotion to general officer soon after completing the Army War College. However, his lack of combat service, which is most likely the result of his very sensitive assignment in nuclear weapons, prevented his promotion to the ranks of general officer. Colonel Abel’s last assignment was as the Commander of the US Army Financial Services Activity. This unit had the responsibility to insure payment and the financial operations for of up to 500,000 troops in time of war.

After leaving the Army, he became a financial analyst in the space and electronics industries. In 1969 he began a 13 year career as a mid-level executive at the University of Pennsylvania and then at the Hahnemann Medical College and Hospital. In 1981, he was asked to return active duty to head the team redesigning the military pay system of the Army Reserve and National Guard.


In 1983, upon returning to civilian life, he became an officer of a 2-billion-dollar bank where he was in charge of the bank operations at over 50 locations. In 1985, Mr. Abel returned to education and was appointed Dean of Business Services at the Reading Area Community College. His last position was the chief operating officer for one of the largest school districts in Pennsylvania. During the more than 12 years he served as the chief operating officer of the Central Bucks School District, he built over $120 million of new schools in addition to running this rapidly growing school system.

Mr. Abel was active in politics in the 70's and served as a committee person and campaign chairman for the state legislator in his area. His biography appears in Who’s Who in the World and Who’s Who in Finance and he was certified for Federal Senior Executive Service positions.

He has written scores of articles that have been published throughout the country.
In 1998 he retired to Southwest Florida with Carol, his wife of 26 years. He is president of the Cape Coral Housing, Rehabilitation and Development Corporation, a nonprofit organization that provides low-income senior housing and helps low income homeowners repair their homes.
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He serves Board Chairman of the Christ Lutheran Church School in Cape Coral, Florida. Mr. Abel has three children, three stepchildren and three grandchildren.